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Virgin appeals to overturn Network Rail's Liverpool path decision for Avanti


21/03/2025 in Network

Virgin Trains 390104 at London Euston prior to working the 2300 to Manchester Piccadilly on September 4. RICHARD CLINNICK.

Virgin has appealed to overturn Network Rail’s (NR) decision to allow Avanti West Coast to use additional paths to Liverpool Lime Street.




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  • Stu Anderson - 21/03/2025 16:18

    So when they were franchised operator, Alliance rail who submitted the application for a London Euston - Blackpool North service, in their reply which i seen (and from other TOCs at the time like London Midland) Virgin Trains basically threw every single toy and every single dummy out of their pram saying how it was a travesty and how they are the only operator who should operate on the WCML, how they are stealing money direct from Virgin Trains.. Suddenly they lost their franchise and now they are trying to act like the bigshots again...... It's funny how at one time they hated the thought of open access on their WCML but now they want access.... My argument is also thus.. They wish to have services from London Euston to Liverpool, Birmingham, Rochdale (via Manchester) and Glasgow.. Basically they want every single service they operates back......... That's acting spoilt.... It's amazing to think how these people operated a train service. They want everything their way and if they don't get it they'll go and cry to the courts...... These are supposedly responsible adult people here. Even children in a primary school can behave much better then these people. They didn't want an open access operator when they were the franchise holder acting like children to get their own way and argue it's stealing money from Virgin but now their happy to steal money from the current franchise holder Avanti West Coast.... They will say it will create new business..... But if they have a 5 car train that can take say 500 people as a pure example then that's 500 people they have directly taken away from the franchise holder and thus means the taxpayer is having to compensate Avanti West Coast for the thefts... They will argue the success of open access operators on the ECML but there are only a limited number of places where it is classed as a "Bottleneck" on the WCML there are no more than i can think of (5 to 10 bottlenecks) on the whole network,... Brinklow and Colwich being the absolute worse..... yes AWC aren't using Liverpool paths as much as they should but for Virgin to say to the ORR "force them to use or give up the paths or give them to us" it's holding the ORR and the taxpayer to ransome! Also Virgin took away services at Nuneaton in 2002 and despite fearce argument and opposition from us and locals they always said "no we're not going to do that or we're not allowed to".... Suddenly they care about Nuneaton and want to call at the station... You didn't give a dam when you were franchise holder so what makes you give a dam now?? You are just an opportunist and don't consider the facts.. So VT plan to run i think it was like something like a total of 60 - 80 services a day on the WCML, adding extra traffic for signallers having to work on... So it's like an air traffic controller if they have 100 planes their watching over at once and then you add an extra 100 planes without additional resources (which is wasteful) then that one signaller for their section now has to look over double the amount. And past rail incidents where serious accidents has taken place because of signallers workload you are asking for fatal incident after fatal incident. You cannot double a signallers workload they are safety critical roles and you put them under any amount of additional stress or strain then you will stop the whole system. There are also arguments (which i seen on Green Signals podcast) that Network Rail is unsure as to whether there are paths south of Nuneaton in the Euston - Nuneaton section and also loss of platforms and space at Euston with HS2 works. So you're using 16 platforms (minus 2 designated for London overground) that's 14 platforms for an additional 7 (Liverpool services) and then whatever VT want to try throw in.. And also fit in Avanti West Coast and London Northwestern Railway who are the main franchise holder and have main access rights into the already busy 16 odd platforms and you they want to fit MORE..... And one final point from me.... Let's take a scenario.. a signal failure at Milton Keynes..... Services are already hard to get back to a normal timetable with the services the WCML already has (including freight) then you add the additional VT services means instead of 3 - 4 hours recovery time you will now double that to 8 hours as everything has to be fitted in somewhere..... There simple isn't enough track, enough station space, enough signallers, enough recovery space in the busy WCML already without adding more.. And the WMSR likely to be agreed in the future somewhere with their 5 services a day... You're now tripling or quadrupling the work load for already over worked, under staffed operational teams.... This is a pie in the sky idea with Virgin's big idea just being that an idea.... In reality you're throtalling a network already creeking... And sorry for this but one massive point.. Virgin Euston - Rochdale via Manchester Picc... With London Northwestern Railway also wanting to do this and the busy and strained Picc - Oxford Rd corridor at over capacity where you going to find this extra space... You can't magically build another track in a busy Manchester City street without causing even more local issues... This is a meringue sweet but with absolutely no substance and when under the pressure test cracks... There are too many holes their plans,,

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